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ofLegends

Job Suggestions (Combined threads)

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So first of all I want to say I'm loving the jobs plugin! I think, combined with /ranks, it's a great way to keep people playing by giving them something to work toward. As I was telling John, I think you guys did a really good job with balancing it out, at least from what I could tell with my (so far) brief experience with it. Depending on how things go, it could be a lot of fun to add in new jobs at a later date, such as enchanter, explorer, etc.

All in all I'm pretty happy that we have this plugin, but here on this thread I want to talk about some adjustments I believe need to be made. I'll start with alchemist.

Alchemist looked to me to have the most fun perks, so I decided to go for it. I knew it would be grindy due to materials required and so on, but man did I underestimate it. I never even made it to level 10 before giving up. To give you a better idea what happened, let's take a look at my stats page under the escape menu:

sZwVLok.png

 

We're looking for the stat ~halfway down called "Interactions with Brewing Stand." It's a little hard to read what it says, though.
 

G0rsFIk.png


1,070 interactions with a brewing stand. I was not even level 10 yet. By contrast, if you refer back to the first screenshot, I had opened 1,301 chests and interacted with a crafting table 183 times.

My method for 90% of the brewing grind was:
Fill bottles -> place in stand, put in nether wart (1 click) -> add ingredient (1 click) -> add redstone/glowstone (1 click) -> remove completed potions (1 click)
For a total of ~4 clicks per 3 potions completed.

Now, maybe it's just me, but I believe alchemist feels way off, currently. The case could be made that it's meant to be one of the more grindy jobs, however, I want to point out that no other job is required to waste materials the way alchemist is. Even blacksmith, the other "grindy" job, can salvage the armors they make if they level the McMMO counterpart skill high enough. The only thing that can be salvaged from alchemist is the bottles from potions, but honestly, I brewed so many potions that there's no way I'd ever be able to use them all in order to reuse the bottles. Even if I could, sand is one of the least expensive ingredients involved with brewing, so there's not really a point. And yes, potions are useful. But after you have 100 or 1,000 strength potions, you might as well just have 0 for all the use you'll get out of them.

I'm not trying to be overly critical, so I apologize if the post comes off that way. I just wanted to lay out my issues with this particular job and try to work through any possible criticisms of my complaints. I really did try to consider the job from all angles. I think it probably was meant to be a more grindy job, but it's currently about twice as hard as it needs to be, in my opinion, especially if you consider that, again, this is the only job where you're effectively throwing away materials.

As I understand, there are also currently issues with the farmer job, but I'm told the admins are already aware of those and working to fix them. I don't have any experience with that, I just wanted to point it out so that we have all the jobs stuff in one place.

Of course there are going to be a few problems when implementing a new plugin like this, but again, for the most part the jobs plugin is a great feature, and I for one am really happy to have it. 😄 Thanks so much, admins!

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Couldn't figure out where to say this in my post, but alchemist may be feeling off due to alchemy (mcmmo) not working. I'm not sure if there's anything admins could do about that, though, since it's mcmmo.

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Hey, thanks for testing alchemy out! I've been meme'ing a lot about it and it is for these reasons you pointed out. 1070 interactions to barely get to level 10 feels way off to me too, but I suspected it would be like this. What is your total ember gain from alchemy so far, any idea?

I feel like both mcJobs alchemy and mcMMO alchemy have been tuned because of people abusing the redstone/glowstone switch, until the devs disabled xp completely from those but "forgot" to turn up xp gained from regular brewing again. 

Did you run several brewing stands consecutively? I remember with mcMMO alchemy I could run at least 6 if I set up my inventory correctly. It's obviously a matter of ingredients too at some point, but it should increase the xp earned / hour. I can't remember from my testing how a hopper fed brewing stand worked out for me, but I recall having to at least place the first nether wart myself, maybe the other 3 steps can be automated.

What isn't working in mcMMO alchemy atm? I'm going to assume you're not earning xp with it. If you did, you'd be looking at increased brewing speed (and probably fuel efficiency nowadays) which could help you out a little bit. 

As for throwing away materials, yeah. It's a shame! We were looking at ways to make potions used beyond chugging them, but most of those implementations would require far more time from our side than we had prior to launch. I for one would be happy if you could just combine 3 potions into some raw material, that would at least empty out chests. 😛

 

 

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Alcemical furnace?

Alcemical infusion?

Going longer term it would be cool to have some features which require skills which are unlocked by different jobs and thus are even harder to obtain.

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6 hours ago, ofLegends said:

.....

Thanks for your feedback, I've spent literally hours trying to balance things, and obviously before you 'orrible lot all came online, it was entirely theoretical. I spent an entire day fiddling about with a single mathematical equation.. I almost lost my sanity.

In terms of alchemy, I agree it does see a little underpowered at present, at least in terms of leveling.

I can make it so that you level up much quicker for the work you put in (exp/unit work) and we can see how that goes, but in terms of the money you earn (ember/unit work), does that feel in a good place at the minute, per potion made for example? (I'm aware that this is a biased question because of course, anything you say that means I buff potential income for you all is a good thing, right? - not unless you want the economy falling to pieces 😛 )

I intend to add more jobs in the future and have ideas for some, but that will come after everything else is sorted and my sanity has returned and the current jobs/ranks feel in a good place.

Thanks for the feedback!

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On 12/20/2018 at 10:38 AM, rocksvin said:

Hey, thanks for testing alchemy out! I've been meme'ing a lot about it and it is for these reasons you pointed out. 1070 interactions to barely get to level 10 feels way off to me too, but I suspected it would be like this. What is your total ember gain from alchemy so far, any idea?

I feel like both mcJobs alchemy and mcMMO alchemy have been tuned because of people abusing the redstone/glowstone switch, until the devs disabled xp completely from those but "forgot" to turn up xp gained from regular brewing again. 

Did you run several brewing stands consecutively? I remember with mcMMO alchemy I could run at least 6 if I set up my inventory correctly. It's obviously a matter of ingredients too at some point, but it should increase the xp earned / hour. I can't remember from my testing how a hopper fed brewing stand worked out for me, but I recall having to at least place the first nether wart myself, maybe the other 3 steps can be automated.

What isn't working in mcMMO alchemy atm? I'm going to assume you're not earning xp with it. If you did, you'd be looking at increased brewing speed (and probably fuel efficiency nowadays) which could help you out a little bit. 

As for throwing away materials, yeah. It's a shame! We were looking at ways to make potions used beyond chugging them, but most of those implementations would require far more time from our side than we had prior to launch. I for one would be happy if you could just combine 3 potions into some raw material, that would at least empty out chests. 😛

 

 

Hmmmm, total ember gain? I'm currently /ranks III right now, and I'm close to being able to purchase IV. I don't recall making any other big purchases.
Honestly I don't feel like the ember gain with it was that good, at least if you consider materials/time spent vs. rewards. By contrast, I could just pick up miner, something we all need to do anyway in order to get gear and tools, and just passively gain xp and money for very little investment.
It's also hard for me to give the best answer because alchemist was the only job I leveled to ~10, so I don't have anything to compare it to.

Alchemy McMMO is currently not working at all. I'm showing as 0 total XP with it.
I was aware of the ability to switch glowstone/redstone endlessly, though thankfully they disabled that. Actually, it appears they disabled receiving XP more than once from secondary ingredients entirely. For example, if you added glowstone/redstone to your potion, and then went to make it a splash potion on top of that, that's a waste of gunpowder because you'll get no XP for it. In other words, save your gunpowder for blast mining. 😉  That's no real issue, but I did test it out, so I thought I'd mention it here in case anyone's wondering.

I was running 12 stands, and I hadn't yet set anything up to automate. I was planning on doing that later on, but the setup I'd planned on using required too many hoppers, and due to not being a miner, I hadn't gone out of my way to get enough to set it up.

As for something else to do with potions, right now I'd suggest maybe a way to just dump them out so you can re-use the glass? Really, there's not much I can think of that would help with the throwing away of materials, but it is kind of a pain to have to stop grinding and go farm sand because you ran out of bottles. Sugar isn't the best in terms of XP, but it is the easiest to get, and it would be nice to just be able to sit there and make tons of swiftness potions without worrying about cooking up more glass.
This may become a non-issue later on when people start taking excavator as a job and selling the sand from it.

 

Yes John, take a break for your sanity ^_^ I'm one of the few who was crazy enough to take alchemist anyway -- most people went for the obvious jobs like miner and woodcutter. I've since dropped alchemist for miner, as I just wasn't gaining enough ember and I needed to go mining anyway, so I think you have plenty of time to work out the kinks. No worries!

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Regarding hoppers, I don't think they work, I tested it briefly on test world before we went live but my memory might deceive me. Everything like this usually requires user input at every step. 😕 I guess it should be fine with inserting bottles for you at the very least, so that takes away 1 interaction, then you manually have to add ingredients (2 tiers) each time. Oh well!

 

 

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First:

I'll bring up spawn and navigation as a small topic. As new players are complaining a lot or getting lost, I think many of the new players are not used to reading vanilla mc signs, and I can understand it a bit they are a bit fuzzy to read, and don't stand out much. I personally have no problem reading signs, but understand people who are. And I would like to suggest to start using Holo sign "Holograpical Display" I think about 80-95% of servers I have joined "lately" are using it. And that sticks much more out and is better to help the new player navigate.

687474703a2f2f7075752e73682f37584d68652e

 

Second:

The miner job, I believe it has gotten a bit too rough of a nerf, I don't have any conclusive data to show to this, but the ember and xp per hour compared to any of the other jobs must be 1/2 or 1/4 slower. Also talking to a lot of other players it seems they have the same impression.

Third:

Hoppers used to come as locked before, and I liked that much better, as it is more safe, and also, I believe that the /hop on did not need to be added as the hopper was locked, and so was the chest, so I believe the last map you did not have to add it, not sure if this is a change from lwc or some setting that was changed. but at least I'll just mention it so you guys are aware of it.

Forth:

When Joining the server each time the message says to use /list to see who other is online, but we don't have access to /list, just an FYI.

 

 

Jobs Suggestions:

This is just random perk ideas for each rank or addition to previous ranks, ( I don't want all of them added, just different suggestions). as I heard you guys wanted some job suggestions. Also just a suggestion to have more tier unlock as it can go a bit between the unlocks, doesn't need to be big things either, a vote crate key etc maybe every 10 or 5 levels.

Builder:

Cook/Chef

Explorer

Farmer

Woodcutter

Hunter

Excavator

  • Condense clay and glowstone
  • Concrete powder to concrete.

Blacksmith

  • Fireresist for x amount of seconds.
  • Use of mcmmo repair and salvage (only for blacksmith)

Miner

  • Access to depth command
  • Condenses quartz

Alchemist

  • Turn sugarcane into sugar with one command
  • Craftbooks Cauldron with custom stuff for the alchemist.

 

 

I will end it here, as I have typed enough for now, I was just brainstorming.

 

 

 

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First

I've seen the holo thing used before and it's pretty neat, and good at grabbing attention so definitely a good suggestion.

Second

I still haven't gone mining yet, so no opinion on this point.

Third

I heard it was a change to the plugin, but yeah you are right, before you just had to have the same perms on the hopper and chest for it to work. Not sure if anything can be done to change it back though 😕

Fourth

Yes (xD)

Jobs

I had a long list of perk suggestions for Builder and explorer myself, and the list is basically exactly the same. 😄

 

Lovely concise post lebh 🙂

Thought I'd add my thoughts on each point so nothing is left out. x

Edited by missatessatessy

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So I'll just keep this forum thread going, as I got more suggestion. as I also don't want to make sevral threads..

 

well I really want to change how towny is. Can't we setup a co-mayor custom rank in the TownyPerms.yml

As it has always been really annoying to have to change mayor, or try and manage town if you have co-mayors / or co-leaders.

towns:
	 ranks:

	co-mayor:
        - towny.tax_exempt
        - towny.command.towny.top
        - towny.command.town.*
        - towny.command.plot.*
        - towny.claimed.owntown.*
        - towny.outlaw.jailer

nations:

    co-leader:
        - towny.command.nation.*

 

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What I think he wants is a rank with the same perms as mayor, so 2 people can run a town efficiently without having to wait for the other one to log on.

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Hey sorry should probably have explained myself better, but yes default assistant are a bit annoying. and are probably set up like that to not be abusive towards town, but someone you trust, and you want to be able to adjust the town more, that you want as a co-mayor so you put him as assistant, but he can bearly do many of the things.

Default assistant:

            - towny.tax_exempt
            - towny.command.town.claim.*
            - towny.command.town.add
            - towny.command.plot.*
            - towny.command.town.toggle.public
            - towny.claimed.owntown.switch.*
            # assistants are able to grant VIP and helper rank
            - towny.command.town.rank.vip
            - towny.command.town.rank.helper
            - towny.outlaw.jailer

 

with assistant you can not:

  • unclaim plots.
  • withdraw from bank
  • non of the 20 set commands that is really handy shown here
  • you only have 1 of the toggle command, but non of the other 7 commands that is also nice to be in controll over shown here

 

I hope that explains the point how handy it can be to to have a co-mayor and have all these certain commands.

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Yeah, I ran into an issue running my town, as me and ofLegends co-run it. And also the previous map this has been a problem. People wanted more than one mayor when I and max_bushi were running a town, it was the biggest struggle, and assistant can't use all the commands, so you have to change mayor back and forth.

Like, say, eg. I got to go to work for two weeks and forgot to transfer my mayor status over to her; she got to wait until I am back 😞 and she does not have access to all the command that I listed above that she will need to run the town perfectly.

There is no way of having two mayors at the moment, so either the possibility of having 2 mayors or a custom rank that makes one a co-mayor with all the same perm as the mayor.

Edited by lebh

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Okay so,

I feel as a Farmer we, have the most interaction with the villagers.

So why can't we "egg" them, or "capture" them as an egg. I understand we have the villager eggs as a vote reward which is awesome, don't get me wrong.
However, I feel we farmers should have the ability somewhere when we're high enough to be able to capture them and use them at our will. Doesn't have to be we capture a specific one and it spawns as that, just a villager egg. As simple as it is.

They mostly, from what I've seen and understood, trade many things with us Farmers for our crops.

Level 25 Perk, Capture animals. Brilliant! We use these animals to make our farms makes perfect sense!
Level 50 Perk, 10% mcMMO herbalism and fish booster? No thank you, I personally would rather capturing villagers or something that's actually more valuable, this is useless to me, my mcMMO is going to level regardless and I don't care if it levels faster.
Level 75 Perk, Increased Health. Awesome, but I'd rather be able to capture a villager. If I'm in fully enchanted Diamond armor, what damage is it I have to take? What do I need the increased health for? I'm careful enough and know how to take care of myself.
Level 100 Perk, Eating food instantly heals. Awesome feature but it feels like it would be better at something like level 50 rather than 100.

That's the only suggestion/suggestions I have. :)

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Oh boy! Where to start?!

Holo displays:

IMHO it's very easy spam these down and make things worse and even more confusing. They would have ot be carefully used not to spoil the atmosphere of spawn.

Miner:

Will cover this later

Hoppers:

I'll raise this with the other staff members.

List:

Thanks for reporting this, I'll look into it

Towny co-mayer:

Added but not tested, please let me know if it works for you :).

Egging villagers:

We decided not to allow capturing villagers this way as it's somewhat "immoral" imprisoning them that way. You can argue players can do it anyway with minecarts and boats to keep them penned up, but that doesn't mean we need to make is easier for you mean people :P.

Job suggests/changes:

  • Existing jobs: We will monitor and together with player feedback try and adjust to ensure they are ballanced (not primising to make everyone happy ;))
  • New jobs: There where a few extra we wanted to add but simply didn't have time to ballance and find suitable rewards so your suggestions are usefull input for us in our future jobs discussions.

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I will just continue my tread with suggestion and feedback. Thanks for the reply, much appreciated getting some feedback back, what the admins are thinking, it's more encouraging that way.

Holo display
Not sure if your answer is yes or no, yes, of course, I agree with you, that if it is spammed down, as some server do, then it looks ugly, it needs to be used as little as possible, to preserve how the spawn looks, but new players these days don't read regular signs, and I still think it would be a nice feature, we old players are used to reading vanilla signs, so no problem there. Just help for these young new ones.

Towny co-mayor
Thanks that helps a lot, as far as I have tested all the command seam to work 😄

Egging villager
I will just say a few words regarding that, it might feel a bit OP, but when it comes to transporting villager that is easy, just put them in a boat, jump in the boat, tp where you want, the villager, they are still in the boat. So don't see that much difference from doing that compared to egging them, but that is my opinion, but if the suggestion is set in stone ill it.

New suggestions/feedback:

Towny outpost
The last map we had 4 outpost that was possible to make, this map seems to be disabled, is it possible to consider to get them back? They are very handy for the whole town and can be used for all kind of stuff, like having everyone in town teleport to a place like a "public" town farm etc.

Purchasable extra plots.
I would like to also have the possibility to purchase extra plots for the town limit. in config.yml for towny, under "max_purchased_blocks:100 "cost 100" I would say that a nice number would be 100 extra plot for 100e that would be 10 000  a nice ember drain for people who are running a town or the cost could be even higher. But I would say that if you start a town this is really helpful as plot limit is quite low unless you join a nation. This creates an additional problem where everyone wants to be in the same nation for the plot bonus.

Changelog
Right now some of the changes done to the server are not mentions, and it is just speculations and found out by testing things. And what would be nice is have just a channel on discord that tells us about those changes, just a 1 line post. Cause I have asked a lot of times rock what happened here, this does not work and just been told its been change or something along those lines. This also leads to confusion with players as we don't know whether we're imagining it or something actually changed, and often we will never know the answer.

Redstone crashes
This is really annoying, I don't believe anyone has a huge contraption that creates lag, so it's very annoying to reset cause it freezes totally up, and you have to sometimes break it, and hopper auto sort filters sometimes freeze up too, so I got to fix that, and it can be really frustrating. I believe it has been lowered before it activates, but I think the feature should be lowered further or ideally just disable it. The frustration of it being broken is even worse than the lag we sometimes encounter.

Jobs / Ranks
Having more than 1 job.
If anyone that has more than one job, they will take a hit to the earned doing that job, which doesn't make sense. So if anyone has been wondering why I only have one job, that's why I dropped all my jobs just to finish my hunter to level 100. so I think that should be disabled, its kind of unfair cause we get rewarded to rank up and use the money on being able to join more jobs, but then, on the other hand, we get punished. I believe the hit is 5% on ember and 1% on the XP. that is quite a lot when you start getting to a high level. and that is for every job you have, so if you join 4 jobs you will have 3% less , and 15% less ember pr thing you do for that job... I know there is a place in the settings to disable this.

General for jobs
I have used about 456+ hours (865 597 mob kills) to reach level 100 hunter. This is an insane amount of time ( to get an idea, check how many hours you've put into your favorite Steam game, then imagine you only during that time, nothing else). On Runescape, a game known for the grind, it takes about an average of 300 hours to reach 99 (max level). Some skills are about 200 hours. And yet I reach hunter 100, with a really really well-optimized hunter farm (hint: not the guardian farm), plus the fact that I left all other jobs. So our jobs plugin right now is more than a game known for being . 😛

think that this needs a buff, but that is for every job, as people seem to give up on jobs as they are too far out of reach for the average player. It can still be really by using half the time it currently takes. I reached max rank (XV) almost the same time as I got to 100 , and I think I should be able to reach 2 jobs to level 100 when max rank -- that would make more sense. The ember gain I feel like is fair for most jobs, I think farmer/excavator needs maybe a slight buff when it comes to ember, and we all know miner needs it, but the main problem is XP for all jobs.  but if you guys want to keep the grind that high I think you should remove the XP lost when leaving a job.

Hunter - mob spawner
As I have really good knowledge about how hunter feels, I think that hunter should earn XP and ember when using a mob spawner. Even if it is just 50% of it. It should still earn /ember from it, cause right now, there are too many jealous people, causes too much drama due to people not wanting to share farms anymore, and does not help us have a sense of community as everyone wants to keep their farms private and not share. So I would suggest just to make it so that they also earn for mob spawner. As I can see that it is possible to adjust how much you earn from mob spawners (https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/jobs-reborn.4216/update?update=20586).

 

Edited by lebh

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Please don't keep extending this post with different topics as it means we can never close it (sorry but I like the feeling of achievement when I can move one of these to "completed" or "rejected" :P). If you wish to raise a number of different points around the same subject (jobs being the obvious example) then for sure add then into a single post

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Oh sorry, I just assumed it would be fine, well as I had different replies to your post as well, and thought it would be okay. 🙄

Do you want me to move it to a different post?

Do you also want me to split it up in all the diffrent categories or if it just a suggestion to have it in a separate thread, so it will be easier to move it to completed or rejected?  (cause I like brainstorm sometimes in bigger threads but of course I can split them up)

 

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I also forgot to ask, (since I can not edit post) what about comments about same topic like I had in the first part of that reply is that okay? Disscusing  view points back and forth, or is it final when an admin has spoken? 

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I wouldn't worry about existing posts but can new posts be created for new suggestions from now on?

I'm not wanting to be super strict on this, worse case one of the staff can split the post, it just helps us if you can keep suggestions in separate areas in separate posts :)

We're happy to have some back and forth, when we move the post to accepted/rejected is when we consider the suggestion completed. There will be some like jobs where it might be more of a rolling thing so let's see how to best handle those.

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Yeah, Thanks, I'll make a new post for each new suggestion, or if it's in the same category, I will put it inside one post 🙂 from now on.

 

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