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ofLegends

New jobs plugin!

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So first of all I want to say I'm loving the jobs plugin! I think, combined with /ranks, it's a great way to keep people playing by giving them something to work toward. As I was telling John, I think you guys did a really good job with balancing it out, at least from what I could tell with my (so far) brief experience with it. Depending on how things go, it could be a lot of fun to add in new jobs at a later date, such as enchanter, explorer, etc.

All in all I'm pretty happy that we have this plugin, but here on this thread I want to talk about some adjustments I believe need to be made. I'll start with alchemist.

Alchemist looked to me to have the most fun perks, so I decided to go for it. I knew it would be grindy due to materials required and so on, but man did I underestimate it. I never even made it to level 10 before giving up. To give you a better idea what happened, let's take a look at my stats page under the escape menu:

sZwVLok.png

 

We're looking for the stat ~halfway down called "Interactions with Brewing Stand." It's a little hard to read what it says, though.
 

G0rsFIk.png


1,070 interactions with a brewing stand. I was not even level 10 yet. By contrast, if you refer back to the first screenshot, I had opened 1,301 chests and interacted with a crafting table 183 times.

My method for 90% of the brewing grind was:
Fill bottles -> place in stand, put in nether wart (1 click) -> add ingredient (1 click) -> add redstone/glowstone (1 click) -> remove completed potions (1 click)
For a total of ~4 clicks per 3 potions completed.

Now, maybe it's just me, but I believe alchemist feels way off, currently. The case could be made that it's meant to be one of the more grindy jobs, however, I want to point out that no other job is required to waste materials the way alchemist is. Even blacksmith, the other "grindy" job, can salvage the armors they make if they level the McMMO counterpart skill high enough. The only thing that can be salvaged from alchemist is the bottles from potions, but honestly, I brewed so many potions that there's no way I'd ever be able to use them all in order to reuse the bottles. Even if I could, sand is one of the least expensive ingredients involved with brewing, so there's not really a point. And yes, potions are useful. But after you have 100 or 1,000 strength potions, you might as well just have 0 for all the use you'll get out of them.

I'm not trying to be overly critical, so I apologize if the post comes off that way. I just wanted to lay out my issues with this particular job and try to work through any possible criticisms of my complaints. I really did try to consider the job from all angles. I think it probably was meant to be a more grindy job, but it's currently about twice as hard as it needs to be, in my opinion, especially if you consider that, again, this is the only job where you're effectively throwing away materials.

As I understand, there are also currently issues with the farmer job, but I'm told the admins are already aware of those and working to fix them. I don't have any experience with that, I just wanted to point it out so that we have all the jobs stuff in one place.

Of course there are going to be a few problems when implementing a new plugin like this, but again, for the most part the jobs plugin is a great feature, and I for one am really happy to have it. 😄 Thanks so much, admins!

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Couldn't figure out where to say this in my post, but alchemist may be feeling off due to alchemy (mcmmo) not working. I'm not sure if there's anything admins could do about that, though, since it's mcmmo.

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Hey, thanks for testing alchemy out! I've been meme'ing a lot about it and it is for these reasons you pointed out. 1070 interactions to barely get to level 10 feels way off to me too, but I suspected it would be like this. What is your total ember gain from alchemy so far, any idea?

I feel like both mcJobs alchemy and mcMMO alchemy have been tuned because of people abusing the redstone/glowstone switch, until the devs disabled xp completely from those but "forgot" to turn up xp gained from regular brewing again. 

Did you run several brewing stands consecutively? I remember with mcMMO alchemy I could run at least 6 if I set up my inventory correctly. It's obviously a matter of ingredients too at some point, but it should increase the xp earned / hour. I can't remember from my testing how a hopper fed brewing stand worked out for me, but I recall having to at least place the first nether wart myself, maybe the other 3 steps can be automated.

What isn't working in mcMMO alchemy atm? I'm going to assume you're not earning xp with it. If you did, you'd be looking at increased brewing speed (and probably fuel efficiency nowadays) which could help you out a little bit. 

As for throwing away materials, yeah. It's a shame! We were looking at ways to make potions used beyond chugging them, but most of those implementations would require far more time from our side than we had prior to launch. I for one would be happy if you could just combine 3 potions into some raw material, that would at least empty out chests. 😛

 

 

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Alcemical furnace?

Alcemical infusion?

Going longer term it would be cool to have some features which require skills which are unlocked by different jobs and thus are even harder to obtain.

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6 hours ago, ofLegends said:

.....

Thanks for your feedback, I've spent literally hours trying to balance things, and obviously before you 'orrible lot all came online, it was entirely theoretical. I spent an entire day fiddling about with a single mathematical equation.. I almost lost my sanity.

In terms of alchemy, I agree it does see a little underpowered at present, at least in terms of leveling.

I can make it so that you level up much quicker for the work you put in (exp/unit work) and we can see how that goes, but in terms of the money you earn (ember/unit work), does that feel in a good place at the minute, per potion made for example? (I'm aware that this is a biased question because of course, anything you say that means I buff potential income for you all is a good thing, right? - not unless you want the economy falling to pieces 😛 )

I intend to add more jobs in the future and have ideas for some, but that will come after everything else is sorted and my sanity has returned and the current jobs/ranks feel in a good place.

Thanks for the feedback!

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On 12/20/2018 at 10:38 AM, rocksvin said:

Hey, thanks for testing alchemy out! I've been meme'ing a lot about it and it is for these reasons you pointed out. 1070 interactions to barely get to level 10 feels way off to me too, but I suspected it would be like this. What is your total ember gain from alchemy so far, any idea?

I feel like both mcJobs alchemy and mcMMO alchemy have been tuned because of people abusing the redstone/glowstone switch, until the devs disabled xp completely from those but "forgot" to turn up xp gained from regular brewing again. 

Did you run several brewing stands consecutively? I remember with mcMMO alchemy I could run at least 6 if I set up my inventory correctly. It's obviously a matter of ingredients too at some point, but it should increase the xp earned / hour. I can't remember from my testing how a hopper fed brewing stand worked out for me, but I recall having to at least place the first nether wart myself, maybe the other 3 steps can be automated.

What isn't working in mcMMO alchemy atm? I'm going to assume you're not earning xp with it. If you did, you'd be looking at increased brewing speed (and probably fuel efficiency nowadays) which could help you out a little bit. 

As for throwing away materials, yeah. It's a shame! We were looking at ways to make potions used beyond chugging them, but most of those implementations would require far more time from our side than we had prior to launch. I for one would be happy if you could just combine 3 potions into some raw material, that would at least empty out chests. 😛

 

 

Hmmmm, total ember gain? I'm currently /ranks III right now, and I'm close to being able to purchase IV. I don't recall making any other big purchases.
Honestly I don't feel like the ember gain with it was that good, at least if you consider materials/time spent vs. rewards. By contrast, I could just pick up miner, something we all need to do anyway in order to get gear and tools, and just passively gain xp and money for very little investment.
It's also hard for me to give the best answer because alchemist was the only job I leveled to ~10, so I don't have anything to compare it to.

Alchemy McMMO is currently not working at all. I'm showing as 0 total XP with it.
I was aware of the ability to switch glowstone/redstone endlessly, though thankfully they disabled that. Actually, it appears they disabled receiving XP more than once from secondary ingredients entirely. For example, if you added glowstone/redstone to your potion, and then went to make it a splash potion on top of that, that's a waste of gunpowder because you'll get no XP for it. In other words, save your gunpowder for blast mining. 😉  That's no real issue, but I did test it out, so I thought I'd mention it here in case anyone's wondering.

I was running 12 stands, and I hadn't yet set anything up to automate. I was planning on doing that later on, but the setup I'd planned on using required too many hoppers, and due to not being a miner, I hadn't gone out of my way to get enough to set it up.

As for something else to do with potions, right now I'd suggest maybe a way to just dump them out so you can re-use the glass? Really, there's not much I can think of that would help with the throwing away of materials, but it is kind of a pain to have to stop grinding and go farm sand because you ran out of bottles. Sugar isn't the best in terms of XP, but it is the easiest to get, and it would be nice to just be able to sit there and make tons of swiftness potions without worrying about cooking up more glass.
This may become a non-issue later on when people start taking excavator as a job and selling the sand from it.

 

Yes John, take a break for your sanity ^_^ I'm one of the few who was crazy enough to take alchemist anyway -- most people went for the obvious jobs like miner and woodcutter. I've since dropped alchemist for miner, as I just wasn't gaining enough ember and I needed to go mining anyway, so I think you have plenty of time to work out the kinks. No worries!

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Regarding hoppers, I don't think they work, I tested it briefly on test world before we went live but my memory might deceive me. Everything like this usually requires user input at every step. 😕 I guess it should be fine with inserting bottles for you at the very least, so that takes away 1 interaction, then you manually have to add ingredients (2 tiers) each time. Oh well!

 

 

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